User talk:Admiral Benjamin Church/UNSC Sic Semper Tyrannis
A little feedback :I would actually say the total number of people on board a fully equipped Stalwart-class frigate (crew, ODST platoon, marine contingent of two companies, no passengers) would probably be about 1,000. You would be hard pressed to fit much else in. : http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/halofanon/images/c/ce/Scootaloo_Sig.png Scootaloo (Talk) 12:35, January 22, 2016 (UTC) Re: a little feedback but the passenger complement was added after the Insurrection stripped her and converted her into a mobile safe haven and black market bazaar --Admiral Benjamin Church (talk) 14:13, January 22, 2016 (UTC) Admiral_Benjamin_Church into his own private yacht, it was a tiny, fifty meter ship that was no use to the rebels in combat because of its obsolescence and tendency to break down. This is a warship that could easily be used for a far more effective purpose in the war against the UNSC than being turned into a cruise ship for Insurrectionist commanders, most of whom are probably also dead or in isolation by the end of the 2530's. *The Final Offer is described as being made up of parts from multiple ships, including a Halberd-Class Destroyer, a troop bay from a Charon-Class Light Frigate, engines from an unspecified destroyer class, and engine plates from a Paris-Class Heavy Frigate. Where do they obtain these parts, and secondly, where do they make these modifications? The rebels don't have shipyards where they can make such extensive repairs/modifications on ships. *The ship is also described as having stealth capabilities stolen from an Office of Naval Intelligence Prowler. Prowlers are able to have their stealth due to the fact that they are very tiny in comparison to other warships, about one fourth to one half the length of a Charon-class light frigate. It is evidently difficult for the UNSC to make a larger ship stealthy, evidenced by the fact that there are few ships besides prowlers that have stealth capabilities in the UNSC, with its abundance of resources and shipyards, let alone the Insurrectionists, who, as I have stated, have no such capabilities. *The frigate is also described as having two Magnetic Accelerator Cannons, despite the rebels apparently having disregarded its potential combat uses to turn it into a hotel. *When the ship is retaken by the UNSC, its "...water treatment systems were all but gone, the air scrubbers were completely useless, garbage was piled everywhere, graffiti was everywhere in sight, and the ship's reactor was leaking radiation all over the place.". This seems like it would be very dangerous, and not a place people, let alone rebel leaders, would want to be around, especially with the fact that the reactor is spewing radiation and the water treatment systems, which I presume recycle the crew's urine into drinkable water, is inoperative. *It is also stated that the frigate has "...sports arenas". A regulation soccer field is about 100-110 meters, and a football field is a little bit under that. A Stalwart-class is about 478 meters long, with a majority of that length being taken up by the MAC gun and engines, meaning it would be impossible, to create sports arenas on the ship. The only ship in the Halo universe we know that has such amenities is the UNSC Infinity, which over ten times the size of a Stalwart-class. *Lastly, once the UNSC takes the ship back, they decide to keep it, despite it being useless without a massive overhaul, and it is kept by a Lieutenant Commander. If you mean it was placed under the officer's command, that's okay, but the UNSC would not just allow an officer to own a warship that they have just recaptured from the rebels and overhauled. With regards to the article, if you still want this be a frigate, I recommend overhauling its backstory completely. However, if you want the ship to continue to be a display of vanity on the part of the Insurrectionists, I would recommend downsizing it, and its capabilities, to a ship that would be of no real use to the rebels in combat, something akin to the Beatrice, which I mentioned earlier, or a civilian yacht. }} Allow me to explain the ship was originally just a Stalwart-class that was turned into a casino, a black market bazaar, and later refit as the Insurrection's flagship. I got the idea from the Final Offer, which is a Cargo/cruise ship hybrid that the Penguin bought from a band of Somali Pirates in Arkham Origins. the Insurrection stripped the ship of most of her armaments (including the mac gun and archer pods) and installed fighting arenas, the kind you'd see in underground fights. They added other parts of other ships to give her more room for the various "accommodations", while also increasing her defensive capabilities along with her speed, as the ship was rarely used in fights because all of the gambling money went to fund the insurrection. When the UNSC captured her, the crew was dead, along with the passengers. The ship's current armament was added after her recapture, including a heavier MAC gun, not two. The Ship's refitting by the Insurrection was paid for by Ace Manufacturing Inc. They are an umbrella corporation that builds/refits ships in secret for the Insurrection, while also providing ships for the UNSC. Respectfully, Church --Admiral Benjamin Church (talk) 16:17, January 26, 2016 (UTC) Admiral_Benjamin_Church Another reason Also, the rebels didn't use her as a flagship because they already had a Halberd-class Destroyer as their flagship, the URF Each To Their Own, but the later combined the two ships together when the destroyer was nearly destroyed --Admiral Benjamin Church (talk) 16:46, January 26, 2016 (UTC) Admiral_Benjamin_Church Re: Explanation so how do i find the middle ground? I also drew inspiration from the Errant Venture, a privately owned Star Destroyer in the Star Wars universe. Respectfully, Church --Admiral Benjamin Church (talk) 18:22, January 26, 2016 (UTC) Admiral_Benjamin_Church or a private yacht owned by a type character. As I stated earlier, it's pretty much unworkable for the rebels to turn any ship they capture into a roving casino and black market bazaar, as it simply is not going to give them anything meaningful in aid of their cause. Even if you were to make this roving casino operation on a privately owned ship, the issue with that is once the Human-Covenant War breaks out, the UNSC Navy would forbid any operations of that type to prevent navigation data from falling into the hands of the Covenant. Even if it was a criminal syndicate owned ship that was operating illegally during the war, people would not want to take the risk of going aboard and possibly running into a Covenant patrol in an unarmed ship with no escort when they can go to a colony like and indulge in their vices there. As I said, unfortunately, there are almost no ways to make the idea of a captured warship converted into a casino/luxury liner work. }} The ship was captured after the Covenant War and re-purposed during the crisis on Requiem. She operated for around 10-20 years as the casino before the Insurrection refit her into their new flagship. She was then found by the UNSC with all hands lost and heavily damaged following an attack by the Far Wanderers in 2601. ONI Section 3 then repurposed her for Special Operations missions where official orders were never given adn the ship was placed under the command of Church. Respectfully, Church --Admiral Benjamin Church (talk) 20:01, January 26, 2016 (UTC) Admiral_Benjamin_Church Look, Benjamin, you keep trying to find middle ground, but the simple fact is that there isn't any. The rebels wouldn't make a decision as stupid as this, so you should just scrap the casino thing.--IndyRevolution (talk) 23:22, January 26, 2016 (UTC) okay, so the ship is actually stolen in the 2580-2590 range. i am going to drop the casino deal and still keep it as a contraband dealing ship. i am considering changing her class to a Halberd-class Destroyer, would anyone object to this? Any more feedback or ideas you can give i will greatly appreciate! Respectfully, Church --Admiral Benjamin Church (talk) 14:12, January 27, 2016 (UTC) Admiral_Benjamin_Church what if i abandon the dealing role and just have the interior redone into a luxury interior? Also, the ship also draws inspiraton from the Pillar of Autumn, which was 44 years old by the time of its refit. Respectfully, Church --Admiral Benjamin Church (talk) 14:44, January 28, 2016 (UTC) Admiral_Benjamin_Church I agree with everyone saying that this ship should be used as a warship rather than a dealer. A ship that I'm working on, the UNSC Ultimatum (By the way, extremely similar names), also gets stolen by the rebels. The Ultimatum was going to be used as a warship, but before repairs could be completed, it was destroyed. I didn't mention anything about refitting, because honestly, the rebel front would not need any modifications made to warships they steal. I recommend that you stay away from making it luxurious, and also from any unnecessary uses the rebels would use it for. It's a warship. It blows stuff up. KingOfYou115 (talk) 16:40, January 28, 2016 (UTC) well then can i keep the black market modifications and have just the captains quarters be luxurious? Respectfully, Church --Admiral Benjamin Church (talk) 20:02, January 28, 2016 (UTC) Admiral_Benjamin_Church Good point. By black market i mean illegal upgrades to every system, but more to the engines, weapons, the stolen stealth systems, and the structural support. Respectfully, Church --Admiral Benjamin Church (talk) 20:31, January 28, 2016 (UTC) Admiral_Benjamin_Church Welp, i'll take now to throw in my two cents after so long. While I really think that a stealth destroyer is out of the question, its not impossible for a stealth frigate. was a light frigate equipped with stealth abilities by ONI. Otherwise, most of what needed to be said has been said. Heck i've had plans myself for a Insurrectionist-controlled stealth frigate for a while now. Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 (talk) 21:45, January 28, 2016 (UTC) I haven't read too far into this due to it being constantly changed, but is there such a thing as a Spirit of Fire-Class? I'm pretty sure it's a modified Phoenix-Class Colony Vessel. I just wanted to point that out. And as for the Broadsword-Class, isn't that a form of fighter or interceptor or something already? Why would the UNSC name two completely different crafts the same? Then again, they did that with the Pillar of Autumn. KingOfYou115 (talk) 13:35, February 2, 2016 (UTC) Explanation Explanation: both classess that you have never heard of are classes that i myself came up with. the Spirit of Fire class is based upon the original Spirit of Fire. Respectfully, Church --Admiral Benjamin Church (talk) 16:36, February 3, 2016 (UTC) Admiral_Benjamin_Church I know what I'm talking about. The Broadsword-class is a strike fighter, and the Spirit of Fire was a Phoenix-Class. If there was a class called the Spirit Of Fire-Class, that would mean that the Spirit Of Fire was the Flagship of that class. The Spirit Of Fire can't be the flagship because it is already a Phoenix-Class. I never mentioned that I never heard of them, because it's obviously made by you. Rename the Broadsword-Class to something else, and make the UNSC Bunker Hill a Phoenix-Class if you want it to be based off the Spirit Of Fire. KingOfYou115 (talk) 19:58, February 3, 2016 (UTC) the Spirit class was inspired by the Spirit of Fire Respectfully, Church --Admiral Benjamin Church (talk) 16:38, February 4, 2016 (UTC) Admiral_Benjamin_Church But the image is of the Spirit of Fire, which was a Phoenix-Class. Creating a class based of another ship that the ship is not a part of creates confusion, and it doesn't help that it has an image of a Phoenix-Class while it is a Spirit of Fire-Class. If the two ships are identical upon initial construction, then they are the same class. Maybe use some concept art of the Spirit of Fire if you want it based of off it, and change the name of the class. KingOfYou115 (talk) 22:59, February 4, 2016 (UTC) where a heavily modified ship inspired a completely new subclass (the Autumn-class in this case). Given the Spirit of Fire's modifications, I see no reason why it shouldn't be a subclass of the Phoenix-class (enhanced engines, better armour and the addition of weaponry, to name but a few). }} thanks for proving my point! Respectfully, Church --Admiral Benjamin Church (talk) 20:30, February 8, 2016 (UTC) Admiral_Benjamin_Church To be completely fair, that wasn't your point. At no point in this have you mentioned anything about sub-classes, and even if you did, Sev's post doesn't prove anything. It's just an opinion that just happens to be on your side. And this still doesn't explain the Broadsword-Class strike fighter/heavy cruiser. That should seriously be changed. You haven't made a page specifically for either of the classes, so I'm suggesting to make a change to the names of them now so that you don't have to do a lot of work later if you change your mind. KingOfYou115 (talk) 22:55, February 8, 2016 (UTC) Deep Winter... I like it. (It shares the name with the AI at Onyx, but I'm not going to nitpick here. AIs and Cruisers are completely different, so I don't care that they share the same name.) Church, I'm glad you listened to my suggestions. I hope that, one day, this page will no longer be unrealistic. See you around Church! PS: If you haven't already, check out the IRC. It's a great way to communicate here on the site. KingOfYou115 (talk) 16:29, February 9, 2016 (UTC) Thanks King!! i cant get on the IRC on this computer, id have to do that at home. Respectfully, Church --Admiral Benjamin Church (talk) 18:16, February 9, 2016 (UTC) Admiral_Benjamin_Church Alright, I have to say that this is becoming really overpowered. I'll list why, *Wayyy too many nuclear missiles. Nuclear weapons are not cheap or a small matter. Why does one ship need enough nukes to raze a continent? *22 meters of Titanium-A3? Even the UNSC Infinity, the largest warship ever constructed by humanity, only had 4.9 meters. To give you some perspective, 22 meters is how tall a AT-AT from Star Wars is. *And followed by 10 more meters of something else? *As for its complement, I don’t think you understand how big an Expeditionary Force is. Just one contains at least one division soldiers, not counting supporting or logistical units. Which is 12,000-25,000 soldiers. And according to Halopedia the UNSC Infinity can hold a complement of just over 17,000. And you’re saying this has NINE expeditionary units. Supplying and feeding such a force for any amount of time requires massive amounts of logistics, more than one ships can ever hold. It would require a fleet! *How does something this big handle Special Operations Deployment? Special Ops implies unconventional, and a giant ship is not suited to that. *Four MAC cannons? Again just overpowered, even carriers which are bigger only have one or two. Only the Infinity has that many and that's because its more than twice the size of this and has a Forerunner engine to power them. *Shielding? Where did it get that? *Mind you I keep referencing the Infinity as it is the biggest ship humanity has and outdoing it shows how OP something is. This ship is smaller than a normal carrier and yet as more firepower, armor, and crew space than the Infinity can ever hold. I really hate harping criticism on something, I really do. And you've been pretty receptive and patient with feedback which goes a long way in my book. So let me round this out by telling you that your detail for its various systems is refreshing! Now, your biggest problem here is being unrealistic. There's just too much for one ship to have, even a modified one. For some people it'll just look like your building a special super one-of-a-kind awesome-ship for your characters. Tone down the weapons and armor a few notches so that it doesn't eclipse the UNSC's flagship and you'll be much better off. Regards ---DirgeOfCerberus111 (talk) 03:13, February 10, 2016 (UTC) Okay, i see your point Dirge, but my ship has two LIGHT and two HEAVY MAC guns. the two light ones are the same as the Pillar of Autumn's, meaning it fires three rounds on one charge, but these rounds are weaker than normal. the nuclear missiles are the same number that the UNSC Everest had, which is 105, but i will change that. i am going to change the armor as well. Any other problems that catch your eye? Respectfully, Church --Admiral Benjamin Church (talk) 14:21, February 10, 2016 (UTC) Admiral_Benjamin_Church Honestly, Dirge has a point. Even though there are two light and two heavy MACs, it's still OP. Let's say a light MAC has half the power of a heavy MAC (which it doesn't, but for the sake of simplicity). The two light MACs would still be as powerful as one heavy, so the ship still has the power of three heavy MACs. And also, the ship is at least half the size of the Infinity. Where would FOUR MAC tubes (tubes?) fit? Those things are huge. The Pillar of Autumn's MAC was almost as long as the ship itself. On a ship the size of the Spirit of Fire, four MACs would fill the whole inside, and there wouldn't be enough space for the crew, let alone the troops! And before you say that MACs aren't that big because you fire one in Halo: Reach, that wasn't a MAC. That was a Mass Driver used to launch cargo into orbit. KingOfYou115 (talk) 15:28, February 10, 2016 (UTC) actually, the light macs were a third to a half the size of a frigate, which, last time i looked, wasn't very big. Also, the heavy macs on the ship are the same ones the Strident-class frigate mounts. So, my mac setup isn't really that overpowered and doesn't take up much space. Respectfully, Church --Admiral Benjamin Church (talk) 15:37, February 10, 2016 (UTC) Admiral_Benjamin_Church You specifically mentioned the Pillar Of Autumn. The Pillar of Autumn's MAC is large. And even if they are from frigates, the amount of power necessary to run four MACs is incomprehensible. The Infinity, which fires four MACs, gets its power from a forerunner power source. And just because we mentioned that, don't be adding forerunner stuff to make this thing work. The Spirit Of Fire, the same size as the Bunker Hill, has one MAC due to the necessary space and power required for it. I'm sorry, but it looks like you are trying to godmod right now with the overpowered-ness of the Bunker Hill. The only thing that should be that powerful is the Infinity. KingOfYou115 (talk) 15:51, February 10, 2016 (UTC) okay, lets say that the Autumn's mac is 1000 meters long, mine has two of those. it has two heavy ones that are 300-400 meters long. my ship is 3,500 meters long. the Punic-class Supercarrier has TWO Super MACS while mine, while close in length to the Punic, has two light and two heavy macs, the heavy ones are a third to a half the length of the Strident-class Heavy Frigate, which is 575 meters long. My MACs would easily fit inside of a ship this big. Respectfully, Church --Admiral Benjamin Church (talk) 15:58, February 10, 2016 (UTC) Admiral_Benjamin_Church MACs It looks like you are purposely ignoring the issue on power. Running the four MACs, the lights, the kitchen appliances, the slipspace drive, the thrusters, the turrets, the drop pods, the hanger doors, the heaters, the cryotubes, the navigation equipment, the targeting equipment, etc. requires a lot of power! That stuff requires a massive power source, such as a forerunner power source. And like I said before, the only ship that should be like that is the Infinity. PS: The new topic is just to make discussion easier. KingOfYou115 (talk) 17:25, February 10, 2016 (UTC) look in the power section. i added a separate reactor just for the MACs Respectfully, Church --Admiral Benjamin Church (talk) 19:09, February 10, 2016 (UTC) Admiral_Benjamin_Church Still looks like your trying to godmod right now. 4 MACs = Infinity. Also, the ship is designed after the Spirit of Fire, right? The Spirit went missing after it went after the covenant ship at Arcadia. Why would the UNSC build a ship based off of a ship that disappeared, and if the UNSC could have put this tech on a ship, why did they create a second ship to add it to rather than just refit the Spirit and other Phoenix-class ships? And why is the year that it was built classified? Honestly, how would knowing what year it was built give out valuable information? KingOfYou115 (talk) 21:39, February 10, 2016 (UTC)